Perfume Pen Pals: Can a Man Wear Shalimar?



Katie,

Shalimar can't ever, ever, ever be worn by a man, can it? There are times when I go on about fragrances having no gender boundaries and how people perceive things differently when they smell them on men versus women and how I can wear anything at any time, I'm completely free when it comes to perfume (though, let's face it, only then). And then I try something like Shalimar and I shut up in a hurry.

Dan




Dan,

When I met Mark Behnke (aka Basenotes' “Somerville Metro Man”) at Sniffapalooza last year, he staunchly declared that Shalimar eau de toilette is the way to go for men. He told me he'd decanted some for a guy friend who fell in love with the stuff, not knowing it was a woman's perfume.

And what with Van Cleef and Arpels Midnight in Paris and all of its powdery vanilla ilk, Shalimar seems more pour les dudes than ever. But yeah, it is a big lady smell, and if the comfortably opulent L'Instant de Guerlain pour Homme is the one putting pep in your step these days, maybe just stick with that.

Katie



Katie,

Shalimar eau de parfum seems crazy heavy powdery vanilla, very dense and sweet and just too much. But then I washed it off almost right away. I'll give it another go later, for Metro Man.

Dan


Later...


Katie,

I'm currently thinking about how I'm going to get that Shalimar back onto my skin, and reflecting on Metro Man's eau de toilette recommendation (which I had originally considered, too). And I think his logic is flawed, unless your only goal is to wear something out of a Guerlain bottle.

It's like sending a gorgeous gown back to the designer and asking her to get rid of all the excessively female elements so a man might be able to wear it.

"Does my neurosis look big in this?"


And then getting back something that sort of resembles the original gown, but without all the frill and cut to look like a slightly long shirt. What's the value in that? Leaving the house without embarrassing oneself? Is that the goal? Because surely a watered down version of Shalimar isn't anyone's best bet.

If I can't figure out how to wear this, it won't be Shalimar's fault. And I won't send back the gown.

Dan


Fumies -- anyone out there man enough to wear Shalimar?

Photo: Dior ballgown, 1950 by Louise Dahl-Wolfe
Powder Puff Pillow via

52 comments:

  1. Well, there is a burnt-rubber smell in there. What's manlier than that?

    Wear it.

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  2. How timely this post is.
    The other day, I sampled some oft-compared to Shalimar vintage Emeraude. Upon first divine sniff I thought "this smells like an old-fashioned man's fragrance. I can't believe my never-leave-home-without-lipstick mother wore this".

    A man in Shalimar would be deliciously sexy. I'm picturing Jeremy Renner spritzing himself with it...I'm pretty sure I'm not going to get any work done now.

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  3. Dan,

    Its all depends on how you feel in it. Just like with that gown, would you feel comfortable wearing it? I am a alpha male, I wear Shalimar!

    Cheers!

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  4. It all depends; what creature is Shalimar in your mind? It might be you just want to worship her, like a glittering star at the heavenly sky. In which case her aura can't possibly be bestowed on you - it would be sacrilege. And then again - you might be so manly you turn Shalimar into a horseriding cowboying utter expression of manlihood. A one-uppance to lonestar memories, so to say. Only a real man can wear Shalimar. If you can't you're a pussy.

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  5. Although I am happy to wear a lot of 'women's' fragrances, including the fruity and the floral, I, too, absolutely draw the line at Shalimar, because it makes me smell like I was a bit too intimate with my grandmother. (I toned down what I originally wrote, but i'm sure you get my drift)

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  6. Gavin--Shalimar is my mom's fragrance, so even though I'm a woman I still don't really want to wear it. It feels like it doesn't belong to me. I go for Bulgari Black instead.

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  7. Yo Dan -
    I'm in agreement with Gojira - there IS no "bottom line" when it comes to what "feminine" fragrance a man wears when he leaves the house - it's more about YOUR level of comfort. I wear Shalimar occasionally and feel absolutely fine leaving a trail of vanilla-powdery goodness throughout my day (albeit, I am NOT an "alpha male"....whatever that is...), but I do feel a bit uncomfortable when I wear "honeyed-rose fragrances" or super powdery fragrances (I'm looking at you Teint de Neige!!).

    In fact, now that I'm thinking about it, I have learned a lot more about my own ideals regarding "gender roles" since I started collecting and enjoying fragrance 5/6 years ago....and I've also learned not to confuse my aromatic aesthetics with preconceived notions about what a man "should smell like" as opposed to what a "woman should smell like".

    My feeling is this: wear the gorgeous gown as is - withOUT the "man" alterations....as long as you've got a great pair of pumps to go with it, of course.

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  8. I own a bottle. Sometimes I wear it but as it is an old school legacy fragrance, you are risking not just the LADY thing but the OLD LADY thing as well...that's more the problem, IMHO. Bottom line, if you want to smell hot, this might not/probably won't work. Just my .02

    ~Fleurine

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  9. There've been several blogs about perfume and gender lately, and they leave me vaguely sad. I wanted to tell Dan to wear his carnation fragrance around the guys, and dare 'em to notice! Are you sniffing me?

    There was another post about some Canadian woman who found her boyfriend's perfume stash, and it had feminine targeted perfumes...and she questioned his masculinity. That was sad, not to mention horribly rude.

    As a woman, I'd be curious to meet a well dressed gent wearing Shalimar, Fracas or Carnal Flower with aplomb. Though those scents are iconic, I doubt I'd recognize them in that context. It would be a fun thing to try.

    There are masculine themed fragrances that I don't wear. Not because they are too manly, but because they don't speak to me. I say try everything, scentwise, and walk in fumes that uplift your experience. Be well.
    --HemlockSillage

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  10. HemlockSillage, if you were to wade through the tidal flood of perfumes discussed in Dan's and my conversations on this blog over the years, you'd soon see that the majority of the fragrances Dan wears are "feminine" or shared. His collection encompasses all manner of big, bosomy perfumes, including Carnal Flower. I suppose his expressed caution about wearing Shalimar or Blue Carnation can be traced to actually having been challenged in public for wearing seemingly implausible-on-a-man scents. But he soldiers on, wearing Chinatown to baseball games, Coromandel to backwoods general convenience stores. He's game to wear most perfumes, but I guess certain ones are too "I am woman" even for him.

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  11. Fleurine, love the "legacy perfume" reference. I think you might have hit the nail on the head for Shalimar's mismatch with Dan: it has a distinct vintage aura that is cool on a stylish woman, but might be disorienting for a man to smell on himself. (Although I know Dan's loving Blue Carnation's legacy aura on himself!)


    JoanElaine, it's funny how the gender assignment of odors shift throughout the years. Look at all the young men hitting the clubs with their sweet smell bombs: One Million, A*Men and the like...

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  12. A friend sent me a decant of 1944 Vintage Shalimar for my Perfume Library, and because HE liked it. While it is a very well constructed fragrance, esp the vintage, even this great fume is IMHO just wrong for a guy... sweet and powder just doesn't work for me, on me. Never has, Never will. And don't get me started on Vanilla in fragrances...

    RE: Dan's Carnation frag; Carn's really work for me, because of their spiciness, and I use only a tiny bit of powder, and a tiny bit of vanilla, for a Man's frag, more of course for a Women's.
    My newest frag I'm working on is "Red leather" with Dianthine Carnation, leather, Tagette, Patch, woods. And I'm not one to not use elements just because some overzealous non scientists deem it "Hazardous", or some other nonsense. Carnations are fantastic, and all those Eugenols aren't gonna kill me, but they smell fantastic. I think I got into a rant, sorry... PK

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  13. Bradamante and Nora and Gavin, you all touch on a good point: fragrances come out of the bottle pre-loaded with references and associations, which may or may not morph to the wearer. There's a real alchemy required between the juice and the wearer: does the baggage of both inhibit compatibility?


    Gojira and Marko, just as you say, you can break down notes and appreciate a perfume's history, but if you feel flinchy and self-conscious wearing it, then there's no point. Not with hundreds, nay, thousands of other possibilities out there!

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  14. Paul, easy to fuzzed up over these arbitrary restrictions...

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  15. Katie,
    I will test out Mark Behnke's theory this week. Surprisingly enough, Mitsouko never did me any harm, but I'm yet to try wearing Shalimar on English streets. Wish me luck.
    B/W
    Alex

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  16. Hi Alex! I wish you safe passage in your Shalimar cloud.

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  17. Dan! DANDANDANDANDANDANDANDAN! ....Dan!

    Damn (almost wrote Dan! there again.) Son - Shalimar is the shit. It's amazing.

    Shalimar not only should be worn by men, but should only BE worn by men who are deep, masculine, vastly intelligent and who possess souls that the Irish bards weep for with green envy.

    Shalimar is the ULTIMATE rainy day scent and I don't care who you are. Shalimar is in scent form what finally getting to the top of Everest is if you happen to be rockclimbing in say, 1920.

    Shalimar is that moment in all those fey private school boys-to-men movies when all the great Classics suddenly make massive sense and they form some secret club and then get laid.

    Shalimar is the smell of early morning fog creeping catlike up over the hills as you pass by in a lumbering train.

    Any man who can't wear this fragrance will never amount to anything serious in the world and should consign themselves humbly and quickly to the cargo pants, backwards baseball cap level of Male Oblivion.

    I have spoken.

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  18. Stefush, my bottle of Shalimar has just whispered to me that it's a little unsure if it can live up to your campaign promises on its behalf.

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  19. Dan: Two Words: COMMON SENSE.

    Bro - First of all, why are we even discussing this. If ANY MAN is wanting to wear SHALIMAR, you need to turn in your MANCARD - SUPER STAT!!!~ Second, ANY MAN wanting to wear Portrait of a Lady - Please - TURN IN YOUR MANCARD!!!~ You and I both know in your KNOWER that certain scents are for MEN and certain SCENTS are for women. Stop intellectualizing and just be yourself. Women want a real man and Men want a real woman. Don't buck the system. Trouble just only ensues....... There really is a NATURAL ORDER to things. Trust me and be what GOD has ordanined you to be. Smell great. Smell like a man!!!~ You know what is right and what is wrong......... Can I get a witness here!!~ Thank you. Dan - I only say this in truth and honesty. I would never, ever want to hurt you or Katie in any way. But, common sense. Yes, it really is that simple. Thanks for letting me express my opinion. GRAZIE!!!~ Katie - He's your bud. STRAIGHTEN HIM OUT and FLY HIM RIGHT!!!~

    Dan - Bro - Two more Words: SELF CONTROL. Yes, I am pleased to say - - There is a BOTTOM LINE. Please I beg of you. Guess what -- there REALLY are limits. There REALLY ARE boundaries. DO NOT GO THERE. ONWARD AND UPWARD!!!!!!~ YOU ARE THE BEST DAN and KATIE!!!!!~ Thank you for engaging me......... It was fun......

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  20. Byron, thanks for adding to the tug-of-war going on here. Both sides are pulling pretty strongly. And I'm clearing my schedule this afternoon so that I can go loiter outside the Mancard Office.

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  21. Dan - there is SO a bottle of premium Kentucky bourbon, in a great bar somewhere near you and I, that will be opened when we meet.

    Angels will gather in the corners of this bar to witness this, just trust me.

    But Shalimar, Shalimar is major perfume juju. Shalimar is there to tell you that there are moments in life where talk of boundaries are senseless, jejeune, in the past.

    This is not to say that it is the ripple equivalent of the scent world - a very small amount of Shalimar speaks volumes, tomes, wisdom to the masses.

    There is no right and wrong, there is only you and the rest of this benighted world in which to live. Shalimar is the small wind that opens the greater gate, friend.

    And Dan? If that ain't necessarily so in your particular sphere, no harm done. Wear what you will and I'll buy you a hot dog and we'll watch another cowhide leave the park.

    Going, going, it's gone....

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  22. Katie: You are HYSTERICAL!!~ OH. MY. WORD - - that's funneh. Thank you for being so gracious and charming. Dan - I'm just playing and having fun..... You two are adorable. Thanks.......

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  23. I see Dan's point (and Byron's), but...ehhh. I can think of at least 20 perfumes that I consider firmly on the feminine side of the gate with no intention of crossing over, and Shalimar is nowhere on that list. Yes, the heart and drydown smell like lemon-vanilla pound cake. Big whoop. 1 Million smells like a bowl of Skittles, Black XS smells like a cherry Starburst melted on a radiator in the ladies' room, Le Mâle smells like dusting powder and a vanilla candle cooing sweet nothings to each other, and A*Men smells like a burnt caramel macchiato spiked with your mother's lavender bubble bath. If those "masculine" bestsellers don't ruffle any feathers, surely the sweet-but-not-overly-so, barely-floral, bitter-and-smokey-up-top Shalimar can coast just fine on a man's skin without raising eyebrows. I don't wear it because vanilla is my kryptonite, not because I find it too feminine. But it's what YOU'RE comfortable with that matters, and if Shalimar gives you pause, just move on, there's plenty of other fish. (And vanillas.)

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  24. Beautifully stated Darryl.

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  25. Love those thumbnail perfume profiles, Darryl. Would enjoy reading those on the back of their respective fragrance boxes.

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  26. Everyone makes such good and passionate points, I'm a little embarrassed that I'm not fully committed to one side or the other. I don't normally draw boundaries when it comes to perfume, but Shalimar somehow strikes me as too much. It was wrong to only focus on questions of gender but, hey, this was only a note to Katie, I'm not writing the Torah here.

    I'd hoped my opinion would firm up tonight, as I wore Shalimar out to the ballpark. My friend Kristi immediately smelled powder and amber and politely said it was an interesting choice considering the surroundings. But she likes Shalimar and so she wasn't quite critical. And yet I detected a sort of smiling tension. Though what else can you expect when you're making people sniff you all the time?

    Ultimately, I don't think it stood out as obviously wrongheaded and in fact Shalimar mixed nicely with the cool, foggy night. But I'm not convinced it mixed nicely with me. So with your permission, Byron, I'd like to retain my MANCARD for now. Unless we're grading on all the perfumes I wear, in which case I rightfully should have turned it in years ago. I hope there's no late fee.

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  27. I recently bought a bottle of Habit Rouge Eau de Parfum, which could easly be called 'Shalimar pour Homme'. I'm getting loads of positive comments about it and it definately falls into the 'unisex' category. It is citrusy up top, then comes the billowing vanilla with a touch of oud wood to beef it up a little. Guys who want Shalimar would do well to consider this one as a very suitable alternative!

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  28. Dan and Katie: I worship you guys. Dan - that response was total class and Thank you for your kindness. You two are a lot of fun and I am ALWAYS captivated by your writings and responses. This is a cool blog. Very, very cool.

    Daryl: What an awesome point of view. You have a valid point and incredible commmon sense. I concur with ya!!!~ Indeed, very nicely stated.

    Dan and Katie: All the Respondents on this blog are AWESOME. I enjoyed this discourse. See, I can always learn from other folks input. This was alot fun for me. I am still laughing.

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  29. Love Habit Rouge dearly, Anonymous. Agree that it swings both ways in the gender dept.

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  30. I read this shouting at the screen "The parfum! The parfum!"

    Yes the eau de toilette is too stripped down, and I can see some finding the eau de parfum too sweet ( I enjoy it ), but the parfum is neither sweet, soft, nor definably feminine. Wear this beside male favorites like Tobacco Vanille and Musc Ravageur and ask which is the ingenue fragrance! Shalimar parfum wears the pants.

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  31. Sugandaraja, I think I heard you from here! Frederic Malle has said that Musc Ravageur is descended from Shalimar, and MR is indeed a male fave rave. Tobacco Vanille is pretty darned sweet, and you're right, Shalimar doesn't begin to approach TV's sweetness. Every time I try the parfum, though, I do find it sweeter than the edp. But perhaps it's more that the parfum is rich rather than sweet...?

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  32. And this is why I feel sorry for men, because I think that by and large, it is considered more acceptable for a woman to wear a man's fragrance than the other way around. Not my opinion, of course.

    Shalimar doesn't strike me as inappropriate for men to wear because it doesn't venture into 12-year-old girl territory. It has dignity, it's rich, it's beautiful, but it's not like you're smearing a rollerball of Juicy Couture all over yourself. For a guy to wear it doesn't mean he's wearing a corset, he's just put a carnation in his lapel.

    Meanwhile, poor Dan is like, "Aw, geez, guys, I just want to smell good is all...."

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  33. "Women want a real man and Men want a real woman."

    But I like transvestites.

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  34. And I like bisexuals! (well, just one really.) So there you go then, as my mother would say. I had quite recently decided on the name Byron for a possible future son, but now...

    As for Shalimar, I find the EDT rather masculine. In fact, it strongly reminded me of All Spice on one particular wearing. The next few times I tried it, I smelled more vanilla and lemon - but still masculine vanilla and lemon! Either way, the EdP is far superior. If you decide you like it but feel uncomfortable wearing it in public, perhaps wear it mainly at home.

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  35. Nora and AnneMarie, a lot of it comes down to context, as folks have been indicating here. How the man, woman or transvestite is presenting themselves on the gender bar, the relative match or mismatch of a "lady's" or "man's" fragrance, and how that contrast may indeed emphasize one's masculinity or femininity.

    The whole thing's an elaborate equation of social cues and primitive responses.

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  36. I just had a brainwave for a "man's Shalimar", or at least a "sport Shalimar": Ode à la Vanille. It's less thick, more transparent and citrussy. Then again, you lose the leather...

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  37. Katie--yes, exactly. What makes something "feminine" versus "masculine," and the reasons why (which are mostly subjective, anyway) MAKES MY HEAD EXPLODE!!!

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  38. The Shalimar of today is a kitten compared to the sensual Catwoman that is the Shalimar of yesteryears.

    And speaking of the male/female divide in perfumery, I'd like to encourage all of you to hunt for a bottle of Grossmith's 'Phul-Nana': I dunno if it's the aging, but this lady is manlier than 85% of all the " men's " fragrances available today - bitter herbal at the top, spicy-sweaty in the middle, and tremendously musky at the base.

    I looked(smelt) hard for a passing resemblance to Shalimar,as this is supposedly an 'Oriental' that debuted 24 years before the Guerlain heavyweight, but there was virtually none.

    Phul-Nana has a (milky?) sandalwood base[my bottle is from the 1920s] that Shalimar lacks,and the famous dirty,resinous vanila is not present in the former.



    Oh, and don't bother with the re-issue: it's just not worth the big bucks!

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  39. What a treasure you have, DomPerrier!

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  40. I've been wearing Shalimar for at least a year now - I figure, if I can wear such ladylike scents as No 5 and No 19, I can sure as hell wear Shalimar! So I got the EdT. Then I got the Ode a la Vanille, too (because we fragonerds don't do things by halves, right?)

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  41. Nick, how are you enjoying Ode à la Vanille as compared to Shalimar edt?

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  42. Katie and friends,
    As a response to Katie's recent tweet and Marc's controversial theory,I have been road-testing Shalimar for the last few days, and can now report my findings. To my surprise, I have found the perfume to be thoroughly wearable by men. Additionally, I can say that in my case, this perfume garters many compliments by women, ironically enough including ones directed towards a masculine opening and equations to the smell of pipe tobacco. I personally feel that there are enough secondary and tertiary elements within Shalimar to give the fragrance a built in safety-net in terms of masculine appeal,which strengthens sympathetically with the user's own personal attitude. Consequentially, the perfume requires far less bravery than you may initially anticipate to wear, especially when worn with a casual psychology.

    The more uncensored wear and constant exposure I gave to Shalimar, the less I found myself prioritising and obsessing over the powdery vanilla and dry floral notes of which it is so symbolic of and largely defined by. In conclusion, I've found the theory to be perfectly adequate, making me wonder in turn, how many more perfume archetypes I can disassociate myself from and ultimately whether such limitations truly existed at all.

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  43. Yay! Everyone just relax and chill out and enjoy your good-smelling people nearby regardless of what "supposed to," blah.

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  44. Hi Katie!

    The Ode a la Vanille has a bit of a spiky opening on me (that's me and citrus, though), but when it warms it's much more floral, less smoky/dark than the normal edt.

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  45. Nick, I did feel disappointed that Ode a la Vanille was missing the edge of Shalimar, but I guess that was the point of its creation: a low-cal Shalimar.

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  46. I guess, the issue with wearing Shalimar is the same as wearing Opium.
    They're gorgeous from A to Z, not intrinsically woman (as, say, Fracas), but they stroke people memories decades ago.

    Though people are getting more ignorant about perfume culture, and I don't think people reminds by heart what smells no5 or Shalimar behinds their name, it's still difficult to play pretend you're wearing a genderless perfume.

    Maybe that's still a problem of shame : the perfume self is right, but it's the idea you could be caught wearing an indeed female perfume, "It's the famous Shalimar!", that makes it more uncomfortable. (or maybe perversely daring) Maybe one can compare the feeling to such scene : suddenly everyone knows you're wearing red women lingerie under you're tuxedo at work.

    It reminds me of "1740 marquis de sade" (histoires de parfums), how could one brand released a perfume with exquisite davana (see Jubilation 25 from Amouage) as a masculine plum-leather with skank.

    Today, reformulation makes Guerlain cheaper on the rose and jasmine wonderful natural components of former "parfum de toilette", nowadays PDT. So Shalimar get more bland, cheaper on floral, and when a classic goes cheaper it can border on masculine.

    The last worry about Shalimar : it's like "l'heure bleue", it's meant to be perfumey. To give a perfume trail behind you. So even if both Shalimar and l'heure bleue are blasted with dark-almondy hay coumarin, you can't play these perfume on the safe side.

    I understand the "my mom wore it" argument, because I love "Femme" de Rochas. I've got the bottles of former versions, it's gorgeous. But I can't bring to make it my own scent, it's so much my mom's scent as I was a kid.

    As a conclusion, I would say, if you're a brown muscular handsome men, shalimar can be the element of surprise, bright as sun, caressing as velvet, and emotionally moved, that turns everyone around smitten.
    It's like the trend for men to wear a diamond earring. It took balls to wear some at the risk of being seen as gay, but today you're not even forced to wear diamond earring as a contrast to your virility.

    Funny enough, Habit rouge is already the "shalimar for men" idea, but it has been as well to much wore by bourgeoisie men, that you can risk a feeling of "déjà vu". Too safe, too conventional, even if Habit rouge is one marvel as well!

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  47. Julien - what a marvelous analysis of perfume style identity politics! Thank you for that.

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  48. Don't you make me blush ^_^
    Compliments from you and Katie warm my heart, and it's not used to. You're giving me self-confidence to open one own blog, one day. Thx :)

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  49. Julien--DO IT!

    Je suis sur charbond ardent.

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  50. Dan, if you're still considering Shalimar after all this time, Eau de Cologne is the way to go. There's less vanilla, more bergamot, and a lot more leather. If that's still too sweet for you, there's always Jicky!

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  51. To each their own. Shalimar is marketed for women, but if a man likes the spicy scent then a man can also wear it.

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